Hate to ask but... SS Spectrum vs. Edead V3?

[peter_euro]

How do these two compare? I really do not want to but ED has a half off sale and I need something for the trunk of Camaro... Owner is cheap and the trunk is big... Would ED stuff do? Not happy about dealing with ED but... :rolleyes:

[Doodaddy]

I haven't really heard much good on the eDead. You get a discount on the Spectrum anyway.....

[onehawaiian]

my edead v3 is fine, but i bought it off a member from ECA.
i actually have that on top of my ss damplifier.
from what i've read in various threads, edead v3 is the better of all their dampening products.
however, if u don't wanna deal with eD then i would suggest u fess up the extra scripts and go with ss spectrum.

i honestly think u'd be good with either.

[onehawaiian]

I haven't really heard much good on the eDead. You get a discount on the Spectrum anyway.....edead, yeah ur right.
but so far i haven't seen anything neg about the v3.

[peter_euro]

my edead v3 is fine, but i bought it off a member from ECA.
i actually have that on top of my ss damplifier.
from what i've read in various threads, edead v3 is the better of all their dampening products.
however, if u don't wanna deal with eD then i would suggest u fess up the extra scripts and go with ss spectrum.

i honestly think u'd be good with either.can I do the entire trunk plus rear deck with one gallon? Camaro guy is kinda stingy, LOL...

[onehawaiian]

can I do the entire trunk plus rear deck with one gallon? Camaro guy is kinda stingy, LOL...dude i dunno. i don't think so?
i only did my doors, and i still have about 1/4g left...but like i said i have it over existing damplifier so i didn't really need as much.
but i would spring for 2 gallons just in case.

but that would be the thing when it comes to price tho.
i like second skin, but i can't see myself buying too much of their products without double checking my wallet from time to time.

[AbRaIsDeAd]

F*ck ED. Don't give that c*cksuck Ben any money.

[peter_euro]

F*ck ED. Don't give that c*cksuck Ben any money.For me, I would not even consider... But this is not my money... On the other hand, I hate to give the fvcking nazis credit for anything in this car... :(

[AbRaIsDeAd]

For me, I would not even consider... But this is not my money... On the other hand, I hate to give the fvcking nazis credit for anything in this car... :(

Tell that prick to quit being such a cheapass or you'll take a dump in his sub enclosure.

[black300zx]

I did all this with ~ 3/4 of a gallon of v3. Not pictured is my hatch, which also got a good 2 layers

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14017&highlight=project
http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14017&page=4&pp=10&highlight=project

[Doodaddy]

edead, yeah ur right.
but so far i haven't seen anything neg about the v3.
Ah. I didn't realize that there was a newer version out. Thanks for clearing that up. thmbup

[AbRaIsDeAd]

I did all this with ~ 3/4 of a gallon of v3.

http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14017&highlight=project
http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14017&page=4&pp=10&highlight=project

Gtfo ICIX drone.

[black300zx]

Gtfo ICIX drone.
drone :confused: yup, cuz i'm just another guy who blindly follows what people say :rolleyes:

He asked a question regarding how much coverage he'd get from a gallon of v3. I showed him pictures. Sorry for trying to answer his question.

[onehawaiian]

well, i stand corrected.
i guess u can do it with just one gallon... :)

heads or tails.
like i said i bought my v3 off ECA for like $50 shipped or something.
i would like to try ss spectrum, but i'm pretty much done with sound deadening.

again, if u don't like eD then don't buy the v3 and just go with the ss spectrum.

[AbRaIsDeAd]

:confused:

He asked a question regarding how much coverage he'd get from a gallon of v3. I showed him pictures. Sorry for trying to answer his question.

Appology not accepted...now gtfo.

[Doodaddy]

How thick are you going to do it? At 1mm, a gallon can last 40 square feet. No matter the brand.

40ft²/US Gal @ 1mm (3.72 m²/US Gal / 1mm)

[demonbane23]

I have used edead v1se and edead V4 ,,, never the v3 stuff. But it is onsale for $25 a gallon which is super cheap.

Then again I never used the spectrum either but im sure both products will get you to the same end. The thing is if you feel so strong that you cant any money to ED just get the spectrum ANT is a cool guy. Personally I would just get the edead.

[peter_euro]

How thick are you going to do it? At 1mm, a gallon can last 40 square feet. No matter the brand.

40ft²/US Gal @ 1mm (3.72 m²/US Gal / 1mm)I have no experience with this stuff... However, my middle name has always been Overkill... so I assume I would double what the minimum is (2 coats?). I assume 1mm would mean one coat...

[Doodaddy]

I have no experience with this stuff... However, my middle name has always been Overkill... so I assume I would double what the minimum is (2 coats?). I assume 1mm would mean one coat...
I dunno. I was just giving you an idea one how much coverage it would have.

[peter_euro]

I dunno. I was just giving you an idea one how much coverage it would have.well, hard to apply exactly 1mm when you brush the stuff on... 1mm is pretty tight measurement..

[Doodaddy]

well, hard to apply exactly 1mm when you brush the stuff on... 1mm is pretty tight measurement..
Bondo applier? Flat peice of plastic?

[peter_euro]

Bondo applier? Flat peice of plastic?LOL, this is a huge trunk, this big box slid in it and it is not even close to the deck lid's front... The entire surface is full of ribs and bumps... Spray gun would be cool but that would be more money....

[Doodaddy]

http://secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?pg=2&p=pr

About $18.

[The_spacemonkey]

Havent used the Edead, but I know first hand that the Second Skin damper is an amazing product.


Cant hurt to email Ant and see if he could possibly match eD's price

[fugyaself]

I have changed stances on dampening material. The liquid is great if you can spray it but mat is much easier to apply by hand.

The next vehicle I do will be done mostly with Damplifier Pro.

[black300zx]

I have changed stances on dampening material. The liquid is great if you can spray it but mat is much easier to apply by hand.

The next vehicle I do will be done mostly with Damplifier Pro.
I feel the same way. Liquid is too damn messy.

I've got 40ft of damplifer in my room that will be going on my doors, and i got a 2ft sample of the new butyl based edead to compare to it. I think i'll throw a piece of each in my powdercoating oven and see how they hold up.

[Doodaddy]

I feel the same way. Liquid is too damn messy.

I've got 40ft of damplifer in my room that will be going on my doors, and i got a 2ft sample of the new butyl based edead to compare to it. I think i'll throw a piece of each in my powdercoating oven and see how they hold up.
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/heat/

[fugyaself]

I feel the same way. Liquid is too damn messy.

I've got 40ft of damplifer in my room that will be going on my doors, and i got a 2ft sample of the new butyl based edead to compare to it. I think i'll throw a piece of each in my powdercoating oven and see how they hold up.


Its a bit messy but it takes forever to apply by hand. Even SS sludge takes longer to do than mat.

I used my sample of the new edead on my rear pillars which was the only place my old asphault Damplifier fell off of. I may not have my car to test it over the summer but it looks like it will hold.

[black300zx]

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/heat/

but that only includes the asphalt edeads. I'd like to see how the new butyl stuff holds up in comparison.

[WeRd2UrMuDdEr]

Peter if you give that motherf*cker a dime of ANYONE'S money, I will burn your house and car to the ground.

[The_spacemonkey]

Peter if you give that motherf*cker a dime of ANYONE'S money, I will burn your house and car to the ground.

which motherf*cker?

[black300zx]

which motherf*cker?
Ben i assume

[peter_euro]

which motherf*cker?he meant Adolf Milne I assume... LOL :D

[peter_euro]

Peter if you give that motherf*cker a dime of ANYONE'S money, I will burn your house and car to the ground.LOL... my alternative would be to cough up my own money... :whine:

[Audioholic]

but that only includes the asphalt edeads. I'd like to see how the new butyl stuff holds up in comparison.
Why? eD has been implying their edead is butyl rubber based for a long time now, but never actually changed to be so until after the sound deadener showdown showed its utterly pathetic heat tolerance, which none of the other real butyl based products showed, proving edead was not butyl rubber based. That's not to mention getting caught 'accidently' including the peel-off backing material in their advertised density/mass specifications, complete lack of in-house quality control of the product, inability to reproduce measureable specs twice, etc etc. eD is run by liars who only come clean once they get caught, obviously. But oh yeah, Im sure they have an industry leading mat now. :rolleyes:

Seriously man, Id stay away from the jokers at eD.

[black300zx]

Why? eD has been implying their edead is butyl rubber based for a long time now, but never actually changed to be so until after the sound deadener showdown showed its utterly pathetic heat tolerance, which none of the other real butyl based products showed, proving edead was not butyl rubber based. That's not to mention getting caught 'accidently' including the peel-off backing material in their advertised density/mass specifications, complete lack of in-house quality control of the product, inability to reproduce measureable specs twice, etc etc. eD is run by liars who only come clean once they get caught, obviously. But oh yeah, Im sure they have an industry leading mat now. :rolleyes:

Seriously man, Id stay away from the jokers at eD.

That's exactly why i want to throw them in the oven together. I got a free sample, so why not?

[Audioholic]

That's exactly why i want to throw them in the oven together. I got a free sample, so why not?
Ah a free sample, yeah burn it crispy.

[fugyaself]

Why? eD has been implying their edead is butyl rubber based for a long time now, but never actually changed to be so until after the sound deadener showdown showed its utterly pathetic heat tolerance, which none of the other real butyl based products showed, proving edead was not butyl rubber based. That's not to mention getting caught 'accidently' including the peel-off backing material in their advertised density/mass specifications, complete lack of in-house quality control of the product, inability to reproduce measureable specs twice, etc etc. eD is run by liars who only come clean once they get caught, obviously. But oh yeah, Im sure they have an industry leading mat now. :rolleyes:

Seriously man, Id stay away from the jokers at eD.


I just started to like you thmbup that much more.

[peter_euro]

I just started to like you thmbup that much more.heh, I was wondering about it too if they try to pull something off by using some commercial sealant and just spicing it up with pigment... This is why I asked how these two compare... I guess even if it is cheap but does not do much, seems like a bad deal. I am fairly positive I am not gonna get any real answers from ED... Gotta love their new line "Ebay's favorite audio brand" :D

[WeRd2UrMuDdEr]

Gotta love their new line "Ebay's favorite audio brand" :D
Is that for real or are you making a joke? LMFAO.

[Altec88]

F*ck ED. Don't give that c*cksuck Ben any money.

thmbup thmbup

[Audioholic]

I just started to like you thmbup that much more.
Is it too soon to ask for a kiss? :D

I've had some email discussions with the author of the sound deadener showdown. Its almost scary and yet laughable to hear some of the bad experiences he had with eD throughout the tests and re-tests.

[peter_euro]

Is that for real or are you making a joke? LMFAO.

yeah... I kinda twisted it around...

the actual slogan is referring to Edead and it says: "The Internets Favorite Deadening"... :p

and this jewel from the item description on ebay (Edead V1):

"You are bidding on Elemental Designs eDead v1 or v1SE Sound Deadening material. To give you some background eDead Sound Deadening has been in production for a little over 3 years now. We have shipped our deadening products all over the world. With more than 100,000Sq. Ft. sold, shows won, and prices lowered we feel we have the best deadening product avaliable on the internet."

Isn't this the stuff that was falling off or is it the new butyl?

[Audioholic]

yeah... I kinda twisted it around...

the actual slogan is referring to Edead and it says: "The Internets Favorite Deadening"... :p

and this jewel from the item description on ebay (Edead V1):

"You are bidding on Elemental Designs eDead v1 or v1SE Sound Deadening material. To give you some background eDead Sound Deadening has been in production for a little over 3 years now. We have shipped our deadening products all over the world. With more than 100,000Sq. Ft. sold, shows won, and prices lowered we feel we have the best deadening product avaliable on the internet."

Isn't this the stuff that was falling off or is it the new butyl?
Well, they certainly haven't been making the butyl based stuff for 3 years. So either its old crappy stuff, or its more eD half-truths. Honestly Id give it about a 50/50 either way, knowing eD.

[black300zx]

v1 and v1se were both asphalt

the new butyl one is called v1se^2

heh, I was wondering about it too if they try to pull something off by using some commercial sealant and just spicing it up with pigment...
as you can see, i've used v3. I've also used Xterminator liquid deadener too(floor of my hatch is done w/ it). While they both are very different when dried, they both definitly had a pretty thick consistency, and seemed like they'd add mass to the panels. That's all i really have to say on the subject. Regardless, i still think matt does a better job then either(haven't tried cascade or spectrum yet)

[peter_euro]

v1 and v1se were both asphalt

the new butyl one is called v1se^2


as you can see, i've used v3. I've also used Xterminator liquid deadener too(floor of my hatch is done w/ it). While they both are very different when dried, they both definitly had a pretty thick consistency, and seemed like they'd add mass to the panels. That's all i really have to say on the subject. Regardless, i still think matt does a better job then either(haven't tried cascade or spectrum yet)this is the actual auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/120-SQ-FT-eDead-Sound-Deadener-Free-Dynamat-Sample_W0QQitemZ5867690627QQcategoryZ67760QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

Looks like a real false advertisement IMO (gotta love that rubber incorporated in the deadener?). You have actually used this stuff on plastic trim, did that stay on? SS is pretty clear about NOT using it on plastic...

[Audioholic]

That's the same old BS line eD has been feeding us all along Peter. Its asphalt based, but like all asphalt based mats, it has some rubber in it. So they emphasize this aspect of the product to make it sound like the newer and superior butyl rubber based materials. They even tout the heat resistance of their adhesive. A quick look at the showdown will prove that's utter BS.

Honestly Im surprised they are still trying this advertising tactic after the showdown tests gave them such a black eye over it in the first place.

[Doodaddy]

That's the same old BS line eD has been feeding us all along Peter. Its asphalt based, but like all asphalt based mats, it has some rubber in it. So they emphasize this aspect of the product to make it sound like the newer and superior butyl rubber based materials. They even tout the heat resistance of their adhesive. A quick look at the showdown will prove that's utter BS.

Honestly Im surprised they are still trying this advertising tactic after the showdown tests gave them such a black eye over it in the first place.
I love that site. :)

[black300zx]

this is the actual auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/120-SQ-FT-eDead-Sound-Deadener-Free-Dynamat-Sample_W0QQitemZ5867690627QQcategoryZ67760QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

Looks like a real false advertisement IMO (gotta love that rubber incorporated in the deadener?). You have actually used this stuff on plastic trim, did that stay on? SS is pretty clear about NOT using it on plastic...
That auction is for the origional asphalt based mat.

stayed on fine for me. After it cured for a few days, i used contact cement to attatch burber padding to pretty much my whole trunk. I tugged on it a good bit to make sure it stuck well, and it never peeled off except for one spot i didnt wipe down with alcohol that well.

The burber padding wound up being a cheap($20 for it all) way to kill road noise a bit, but still isn't as quiet as i'd like. I'll probably replace it with some SS overkill or luxury liner this summer now that i've got a bit more money.

[WeRd2UrMuDdEr]

this is the actual auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/120-SQ-FT-eDead-Sound-Deadener-Free-Dynamat-Sample_W0QQitemZ5867690627QQcategoryZ67760QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem

Looks like a real false advertisement IMO (gotta love that rubber incorporated in the deadener?). You have actually used this stuff on plastic trim, did that stay on? SS is pretty clear about NOT using it on plastic...
If I wasn't banned from icix, i'd buy all of their ebay stuff, just to give them negative feedback, and then resale it on xchange.

:D :D :D

[Rudeboy]

but that only includes the asphalt edeads. I'd like to see how the new butyl stuff holds up in comparison.

Send me a piece and I'll test it :)

Here's what I've gathered about the liquids. They need to be applied in equal thinckness to the mats for equal effect - that's closer to 2mm than 1. I think you will nedd 4 or 5 coats to get there.

The blue eDead is different than the black. I believe it is the same formula as the liquid sold by Select Products - can't swear to it, but I've been told by people that have used both that the black is superior to the blue. I think the black is the same as QuietCar. The liquid market is even more confusing than the mat.

[peter_euro]

Send me a piece and I'll test it :)

Here's what I've gathered about the liquids. They need to be applied in equal thinckness to the mats for equal effect - that's closer to 2mm than 1. I think you will nedd 4 or 5 coats to get there.

The blue eDead is different than the black. I believe it is the same formula as the liquid sold by Select Products - can't swear to it, but I've been told by people that have used both that the black is superior to the blue. I think the black is the same as QuietCar. The liquid market is even more confusing than the mat.4 or 5 coats means barely 10sq ft... :eek: so ED stuff is different in properties not just color? wow, very interesting... I guess SS is better then...

[Rudeboy]

4 or 5 coats means barely 10sq ft... :eek: so ED stuff is different in properties not just color? wow, very interesting... I guess SS is better then...

I meant 4 or 5 coats to get to 2mm - so a gallon should cover about 20sf to achieve a result more or less equal to one layer of mat.

[fugyaself]

If I wasn't banned from icix, i'd buy all of their ebay stuff, just to give them negative feedback, and then resale it on xchange.

:D :D :D

That would be pretty damn funny but ED would have your money and thats all they care about. They will just jump to another auction site where they can control their feedback.

[The_spacemonkey]

4 or 5 coats means barely 10sq ft... :eek: so ED stuff is different in properties not just color? wow, very interesting... I guess SS is better then...


There is a MUCH wider variation between performance from brand to brand in liquid than in mat. Here is a little secret for you:

The thicker the liquid damper you buy = less water you are paying for = more you are getting for your money.

[The_spacemonkey]

I meant 4 or 5 coats to get to 2mm - so a gallon should cover about 20sf to achieve a result more or less equal to one layer of mat.

Very dependant on the material though. Remember we are talking 2mm DRY, not wet. If you know the % solids of the material ( or % water) you could do good calculations based on volume, but if not its hard to make such assumptons of coverage from a pure volume standpoint.

[Rudeboy]

There is a MUCH wider variation between performance from brand to brand in liquid than in mat. Here is a little secret for you:

True that.



The thicker the liquid damper you buy = less water you are paying for = more you are getting for your money.
There are also big variations in the cost and quality of the non-water components, so point one has to be considered as well.

[second skin rep]

$25 for a gallon.. I would soak that up all day long!!
a single gallon will yields 40 sq feet at 1 mm thick
this might take take 3 or 4 coats with a paint brush
To be as effective as a butyl constraint layer damper the total thickness will have to equal that of the mat. slight thicker actually to make up for the lack of the foil layer.

ANT

[onehawaiian]

ant, as always, professionally neutral.
is it no surprise why we continue to buy from you time and time again?
you da man.
:cool:

[black300zx]

$25 for a gallon.. I would soak that up all day long!!
a single gallon will yields 40 sq feet at 1 mm thick
this might take take 3 or 4 coats with a paint brush
To be as effective as a butyl constraint layer damper the total thickness will have to equal that of the mat. slight thicker actually to make up for the lack of the foil layer.

ANT
professionalism at it's best

thmbup

[black300zx]

Send me a piece and I'll test it :)

they sent me ~3-4 sq feet as a sample. I cut a ~1"X12" strip off to keep for a comparison against the damplifier, and just used the rest on the rear deck of my g/f's car.

Call them up or email them and ask for a sample.

[peter_euro]

well anyway... I think I will abandon the idea of jumping on ED sale... :rolleyes:

[Altec88]

well anyway... I think I will abandon the idea of jumping on ED sale... :rolleyes:

Good idea thmbup

[peter_euro]

Good idea thmbupLOL... I think it is better to go with something you can trust instead of taking chances... Plus I would have to ban myself from here...

[Rudeboy]

they sent me ~3-4 sq feet as a sample. I cut a ~1"X12" strip off to keep for a comparison against the damplifier, and just used the rest on the rear deck of my g/f's car.

Call them up or email them and ask for a sample.

I prefer not to let the suppliers of the generic materials know ahead of time that the sample is going to be used for SoundDeadenerShowdown.com.

[EvilKokonut]

i ordered 5 gals for $161 shipped 2 days ago and it already shipped out. I have one gal on my car already without problems..

[Doodaddy]

I prefer not to let the suppliers of the generic materials know ahead of time that the sample is going to be used for SoundDeadenerShowdown.com.
Any plans for a liquid showdown? Or is that even feasible?

[Rudeboy]

Any plans for a liquid showdown? Or is that even feasible?

The next round of testing is going to be looking at effectiveness. As idiotic as it seems now, everything I have done so far has been to determine how well these products were able to perform at the most basic level - could they be relied upon when used for their intended purpose.

I wanted to find out why so many people were having products fail when they were installed with great care. Pretty pathetic really. That seems pretty much resolved. Some companies were/are selling products without any regard for their customers.

Testing effectiveness is much more complicated. The standard vibration damping tests - ASTM E756 - are very expensive to perform, thousands per sample. I have seen very good evidence that all of these numbers you see published in this industry are bogus. The most likely scenario is that Dynamic Control was first to publish numbers - using a non standard methodology that gave better results than are physically possible. Everybody else looked at their results and made up numbers that seemd plausible.

If somebody wanted to do real tests for their product - and I know that some have - they would be crazy to reveal them to the public because their product would look bad when compared to the phony results.

I'm setting up a series of tests to try to compare mats and liquids, combinations and a few other things. Pretty complicated.

All of the vibration damping products emphasize the effect of visco-elastic damping, the old "converting vibration to heat" deal. Very hard to sort out how much of the effect is a result of this and how much is the result of adding mass to the vibrating body. If adding mass is the primary benefit, then if the product sticks, it works.

Another important feature is the ability of these products to act as a barrier. So I want to look at that too.

I doubt I can take a dozen liquids and compare them directly, but I will try to see how effective they are when used alone, in combination with mats, etc. I'll try to find representative samples. Many of the available products are actually the same thing, just different labels. So we'll see.

[Doodaddy]

The next round of testing is going to be looking at effectiveness. As idiotic as it seems now, everything I have done so far has been to determine how well these products were able to perform at the most basic level - could they be relied upon when used for their intended purpose.

I wanted to find out why so many people were having products fail when they were installed with great care. Pretty pathetic really. That seems pretty much resolved. Some companies were/are selling products without any regard for their customers.

Testing effectiveness is much more complicated. The standard vibration damping tests - ASTM E756 - are very expensive to perform, thousands per sample. I have seen very good evidence that all of these numbers you see published in this industry are bogus. The most likely scenario is that Dynamic Control was first to publish numbers - using a non standard methodology that gave better results than are physically possible. Everybody else looked at their results and made up numbers that seemd plausible.

If somebody wanted to do real tests for their product - and I know that some have - they would be crazy to reveal them to the public because their product would look bad when compared to the phony results.

I'm setting up a series of tests to try to compare mats and liquids, combinations and a few other things. Pretty complicated.

All of the vibration damping products emphasize the effect of visco-elastic damping, the old "converting vibration to heat" deal. Very hard to sort out how much of the effect is a result of this and how much is the result of adding mass to the vibrating body. If adding mass is the primary benefit, then if the product sticks, it works.

Another important feature is the ability of these products to act as a barrier. So I want to look at that too.

I doubt I can take a dozen liquids and compare them directly, but I will try to see how effective they are when used alone, in combination with mats, etc. I'll try to find representative samples. Many of the available products are actually the same thing, just different labels. So we'll see.
Wow. Taking this stuff serious. Nice. :cool:

Since you're doing all this testing, and it is obviously costing you money, how are you funding such tests?

If the ASTM E756 is so expensive, what alternative are you looking at?

[Rudeboy]

Wow. Taking this stuff serious. Nice. :cool:

Since you're doing all this testing, and it is obviously costing you money, how are you funding such tests?

If the ASTM E756 is so expensive, what alternative are you looking at?

I'm not funding it in any meaningful way :) The Google ads on the site cover hosting costs and not much more. I'm really just interested in it. I found it difficult to choose a product with the information available at the time and one thing just led to another. I found out pretty quickly that there were a few good people selling stuff and a lot more sleaseballs selling whatever they could get away with. Just wanted to clarify which were which.

I'm going to build a sealed box with a sound level meter at one end and an opening at the other, into which I can feed test tones. between the two will be a slot that will take a piece of sheet metal treated with the products. I'll see what gets from one side to the other.

I'd also like to get a cymbal or small gong and rig it to be struck by something like a door bell hammer. Then measure initial level and decay time when treated.

Doubt any of that will happen until summer. Have to update the current site before I get to that.

[black300zx]

Damn - sounds like some good "real world" tests

[Rudeboy]

Damn - sounds like some good "real world" tests

As real as it gets in my world :)

Since I put SDS up, between 50 and 75 people have read it every day. I feel a certain responsibility to try to keep it useful.

[Regal1975]

Gtfo ICIX drone.

F*ck ED. Don't give that c*cksuck Ben any money.

Abra, you know i love you, but come on man. You are trying to get your own company going and bashing another company isnt exactly smart business.. marvel at my neutrality...

heh, I was wondering about it too if they try to pull something off by using some commercial sealant and just spicing it up with pigment... This is why I asked how these two compare... I guess even if it is cheap but does not do much, seems like a bad deal. I am fairly positive I am not gonna get any real answers from ED... Gotta love their new line "Ebay's favorite audio brand" :D


Feel free to ask me any questions you ever have about ED personally. I will be more than happy to answer them for you.


Send me a piece and I'll test it :)

Here's what I've gathered about the liquids. They need to be applied in equal thinckness to the mats for equal effect - that's closer to 2mm than 1. I think you will nedd 4 or 5 coats to get there.

The blue eDead is different than the black. I believe it is the same formula as the liquid sold by Select Products - can't swear to it, but I've been told by people that have used both that the black is superior to the blue. I think the black is the same as QuietCar. The liquid market is even more confusing than the mat.


The blue and black may have been different at some time, im not sure about this off the top of my head, but i can assure you that the very first run of blue v3 is identical to the current black and the current blue is identical to the current black. Very well may have been different at some other point though.

Keep up the good work btw!

thmbup

[Rudeboy]

The blue and black may have been different at some time, im not sure about this off the top of my head, but i can assure you that the very first run of blue v3 is identical to the current black and the current blue is identical to the current black. Very well may have been different at some other point though.


I hate to go down this road again, but I really think this is a problem. Maybe they are the same, but I find your statement very confusing. The fact is, and it could well be some deficiency on my part, but I find a lot of the information that comes from you guys confusing. I can't figure out if this is policy, culture or what.

Obviously they can't be identical. At the very least they use different pigments. If they are identical in every other aspect, then I am mistaken, but the very structure of your statement means that you are mistaken either way.

Wouldn't it be simpler to say: "Both products are identical except for pigment" ? Then of course it would be nice to add an offer of a pint of each to evaluate. As it is, no real information has been added to the conversation.

This is all pretty basic stuff. Is it butyl? Is it asphalt? Is it Ensolite? Is it Neoprene. Fundamental characteristics that would help us make informed decisions are too often obfuscated. Are we to infer that you manufacture your liquid products yourself from formulas developed in house? We know that isn't the case from the v3 sale announcement. Are you saying that both products come from the same manufacturer – identical composition except for pigment?

[peter_euro]

I wanted to find out why so many people were having products fail when they were installed with great care. Pretty pathetic really. That seems pretty much resolved. Some companies were/are selling products without any regard for their customers.

How is this resolved? You uncovered that ED stuff was junk and they are selling it advertising the opposite... :rolleyes: If they do not like your results, they should employ unbiased third party and verify your results but they never had...

Have you seen how they advertised this stuff? Not only it is the best but they hint at this shiit being butyl based... I am sure if you asked them about that rubber thing they would claim that it is comparible to butyl based deadeners...

I am so frustrated about this whole thing, feel like wanna buy a truckload from Adolf, let it sit in the sun for a few so it can melt and then roll him in feathers... :mad: :mad:

[peter_euro]

I'm not funding it in any meaningful way :) The Google ads on the site cover hosting costs and not much more. I'm really just interested in it. I found it difficult to choose a product with the information available at the time and one thing just led to another. I found out pretty quickly that there were a few good people selling stuff and a lot more sleaseballs selling whatever they could get away with. Just wanted to clarify which were which.

I'm going to build a sealed box with a sound level meter at one end and an opening at the other, into which I can feed test tones. between the two will be a slot that will take a piece of sheet metal treated with the products. I'll see what gets from one side to the other.

I'd also like to get a cymbal or small gong and rig it to be struck by something like a door bell hammer. Then measure initial level and decay time when treated.

Doubt any of that will happen until summer. Have to update the current site before I get to that.now, would it not be nice to come up with some standard rating system for deadeners to justify what they cost and what you get for the money? If that system is fairly accurate, maybe life could get simpler while you try to weed out all the phonies pushing roofing stuff as magic rattle cure? ;)

[black300zx]

now, would it not be nice to come up with some standard rating system for deadeners to justify what they cost and what you get for the money? If that system is fairly accurate, maybe life could get simpler while you try to weed out all the phonies pushing roofing stuff as magic rattle cure? ;)

isn't that similar to what the cea-2006 guidlines tried to do with amps?

[peter_euro]

isn't that similar to what the cea-2006 guidlines tried to do with amps?if you mean trying to put end to BS, then yeah...

[Rudeboy]

How is this resolved? You uncovered that ED stuff was junk and they are selling it advertising the opposite... :rolleyes: If they do not like your results, they should employ unbiased third party and verify your results but they never had...

Have you seen how they advertised this stuff? Not only it is the best but they hint at this shiit being butyl based... I am sure if you asked them about that rubber thing they would claim that it is comparible to butyl based deadeners...

I am so frustrated about this whole thing, feel like wanna buy a truckload from Adolf, let it sit in the sun for a few so it can melt and then roll him in feathers... :mad: :mad:

I wasn't singling them out. There are plenty of other companies making "extreme" claims for their version of Peel & Seal. ED was very "vague" about the composition of their products and did sometimes stray into the area of outright misinformation. I have publicly faulted them for stating that their mats were butyl when they were asphalt. I have done the same for their inflated specifications and share your frustration that they only partially addressed that issue by replacing one of the products with one that I haven't yet seen or tested.

I believe the issue is resolved in so far as people can at least see what these products are made of. Meaningless and deceptive claims like "Better than Dynamat" and "High heat tolerance" can be put in perspective.

There will always be problem players in every market. At least with some more information, people have a better chance of making a good decision - even if they choose to go with an asphalt based product, at least they know that is what they are buying. This market was a toilet.

[Rudeboy]

now, would it not be nice to come up with some standard rating system for deadeners to justify what they cost and what you get for the money? If that system is fairly accurate, maybe life could get simpler while you try to weed out all the phonies pushing roofing stuff as magic rattle cure? ;)

It would, but there are too many variables to nail that down. How much is vibration damping. How much is barrier. What is the best balance between damping product and absorption product. How much benefit is gained from over-coating mat with liquid?

There are a few inescapable facts as far as mats go. Butyl is superior to asphalt in every way - except price. It is more stable and more effective accross a wider range of temperatures. I would not even consider using an asphalt product.

[peter_euro]

This market was a toilet.Was? It is still is, hehe... And ED seems to be leading the way... That would be the day when you see a FAILED EFFORT sale from ED? "Due to substandard characteristics, we are offering you this for next to nothing. Install at your own risk as we cannot guarantee it will adhere. It is far from the best but it is dirt cheap". Now, I could live with a sales pitch like that.

BTW, I appreciate you taking time to test this stuff. thmbup

[peter_euro]

It would, but there are too many variables to nail that down. How much is vibration damping. How much is barrier. What is the best balance between damping product and absorption product. How much benefit is gained from over-coating mat with liquid?

There are a few inescapable facts as far as mats go. Butyl is superior to asphalt in every way - except price. It is more stable and more effective accross a wider range of temperatures. I would not even consider using an asphalt product.
you may want to start thinking about a standard rattle and maybe resonance tests where you are able to test this over a larger surface area and with metal thickness most susceptible to it... I would love to see something done along these lines. ;)

[Rudeboy]

you may want to start thinking about a standard rattle and maybe resonance tests where you are able to test this over a larger surface area and with metal thickness most susceptible to it... I would love to see something done along these lines. ;)

The best way to do it would be for the forum to get together and purchase 10 identical cars for me. I'm partial to Acuras and BMWs - TLs or 3s will be fine. Have them delivered to me and I will deaden each one using different products. I will then drive them all for a year or two and report my findings.

I like silver.

[peter_euro]

The best way to do it would be for the forum to get together and purchase 10 identical cars for me. I'm partial to Acuras and BMWs - TLs or 3s will be fine. Have them delivered to me and I will deaden each one using different products. I will then drive them all for a year or two and report my findings.

I like silver.I can go to a local junkyard and get you a rear parcel shelf for about 2 bucks and some wood to simulate mounting points. I can also either send you money for or a can of silver paint (I'd rather send you money since I am not sure which shade of silver you are partial to...) ;)

[Rudeboy]

I can go to a local junkyard and get you a rear parcel shelf for about 2 bucks and some wood to simulate mounting points. I can also either send you money for or a can of silver paint (I'd rather send you money since I am not sure which shade of silver you are partial to...) ;)

Pretty sure I like my idea more. :)

[sq_camry]

Location: in a land where ED haters and ED Reps can get along.

lol

all this thread needs is someguy to come in and start bashing on eD. :rolleyes:

[WeRd2UrMuDdEr]

lol

all this thread needs is someguy to come in and start bashing on eD. :rolleyes:
I don't think there's anything new to say :confused:

[The_spacemonkey]

.

I'm going to build a sealed box with a sound level meter at one end and an opening at the other, into which I can feed test tones. between the two will be a slot that will take a piece of sheet metal treated with the products. I'll see what gets from one side to the other.

I'd also like to get a cymbal or small gong and rig it to be struck by something like a door bell hammer. Then measure initial level and decay time when treated.

Doubt any of that will happen until summer. Have to update the current site before I get to that.


Good luck with that.... I actually tried to do the exact thing you are saying, but it ended up being much more difficult than I thought.

[Rudeboy]

Good luck with that.... I actually tried to do the exact thing you are saying, but it ended up being much more difficult than I thought.

I have the advantage of not being burdened by excessive education and intelligence :)

Seriously though, are you talking about the box or the cymbal? Are you saying you had trouble rigging the gear or getting meaningful readings from it?

I'm most interested in measuring the barrier properties of different materials.

[The_spacemonkey]

I have the advantage of not being burdened by excessive education and intelligence :)

Seriously though, are you talking about the box or the cymbal? Are you saying you had trouble rigging the gear or getting meaningful readings from it?

I'm most interested in measuring the barrier properties of different materials.


I had trouble getting meaningful readings. An SPL meter and a wood box is just not enough to take any sort of readings that are not buried in data noise as far as I could figure out. Barrier properties are the ONLY thing you MAY be able to get out of it..... but the problem I had was that there was no way to acoustically isolate the rear of the box from the front of the box. A metal sheet with damper on it reduced the amount of transmitted sound enough that it brought the reference signal (the sound passing through the damper and metal directly) down to the level of the noise leaked through whatever method I tired to isolate. Generally, you would want to take the SPL reading with the metal and damper in place, and subtract off the SPL reading with some high threshold acoustic barrier in place. Now, as im sure you know, as far as data aquisition goes, subtracting a background signal from a reference signal that is on the same magnitude is a no-no. If you do do this, you will mostly just get noisy data that is hard to make any sort of correlation from.


Well... that was my problem at least. If you can figure out a way to very strongly acoustically seperate the front of the test chamber from the rear, then you may be able to do as you hope. :)


Good luck man, shoot me an email if you want to talk about it more..... I would be very interested in trying to make this test work as well.

[black300zx]

I'm most interested in measuring the barrier properties of different materials.
I've been thinking of trying something to compare products that are geared more towards road noise reduction(ie - ensolite, SS overkill, SS luxury liner, carpet padding, edead v4, ect).

I was thinking of pretty much taking a small full range speaker something along the lines of a computer speaker or something. Play a broad sine sweep(maybe 100hz-10 or 15khz or so). Basically record the sweep with an rta(i was gonna use speaker workshop with a behringer mic). After establishing a baseline, wrap the mic with the product to be tested, and record again. This should show it's noise absorption properties pretty well, right?

I would think you could do the same thing with mat, but maybe it's hard to get consistent or meaningful results.

[Rudeboy]

I'm pretty sure all of this makes my Acura/BMW experiment the only way to go.

[peter_euro]

I'm pretty sure all of this makes my Acura/BMW experiment the only way to go.20 dollar wreck towed from a junkyard is a more attractive alternative... ;)

[Rudeboy]

20 dollar wreck towed from a junkyard is a more attractive alternative... ;)

Just not sure why you can't see the logic of my position. Following on the lines of Bobby's suggestions, in order for there to be meaningful results from this, there has to be a tight seal between the interior and exterior of the car. I'm fairly sure that my brand new fleet of cars will have much better weather stripping than your $20 junker. It's just that simple.

Gotta work with me on this.

[peter_euro]

Just not sure why you can't see the logic of my position. Following on the lines of Bobby's suggestions, in order for there to be meaningful results from this, there has to be a tight seal between the interior and exterior of the car. I'm fairly sure that my brand new fleet of cars will have much better weather stripping than your $20 junker. It's just that simple.

Gotta work with me on this.A thought of you trying to gain some perks out of it has never crossed my mind... I am just convinced that having any trim or upholstery would skew the results. Nothing beats having just metal surfaces to work with. :)

[second skin rep]

Was? It is still is, hehe... And ED seems to be leading the way...

There are some companies out there that refuse to follow

Not all the followers follow the leader and not all leaders have followers...
ANT

[pete36]

interesting read ... although never having issues with the edead ... personally i will say i'm a dynamat xtreame guy :cool:

[demonbane23]

I have the old edead 1vse and never had a problem with it falling off or heat, maybe im just lucky if asphalt mat is that bad or as Ben calls it rubberized, not sure what that means but here is a qoute from ben to clear up all your confusion if there still is any I found this from searching.

"v1 / SE are both rubberized asphalt.

SE2 is butyl based. There is a thread about SE2 in the product / new information forum at the top of the page."

and another qoute

"So we talked about it and once people urged us for the differences and for an upgrade to not just be a thick cost effective solution. But to be a higher temp solution and everyone said they were willing to pay more.

So. After a bit of development and moving forward based on new cost structures we've found a way to develop the eDead v1SE² as a 60mil solution with a butyl base and slightly different adhesive.

Long story short the changes.
1. Rubberized Aphalt base becomes a Butyl base. The current base liquifies before the new one really starts to show signs of stress.
2. Current manufacturing of the rubberized asphalt base is 70mils but to keep price the same (within reason) the eDead v1SE² will go to 60mils.

All in all it becomes more like Dynamat Extreme in every way. It's less overall value oriented and production would increase about 3 fold again to keep price where it needs to be. BUT, in all in it's a better performing product.

You guys give us the heads up or heads down and we'll proceed as you see fit."


If you know all that already more power to you and sorry for wasteing your time.

[peter_euro]

I have the old edead 1vse and never had a problem with it falling off or heat, maybe im just lucky if asphalt mat is that bad or as Ben calls it rubberized, not sure what that means but here is a qoute from ben to clear up all your confusion if there still is any I found this from searching.

"v1 / SE are both rubberized asphalt.

SE2 is butyl based. There is a thread about SE2 in the product / new information forum at the top of the page."

and another qoute

"So we talked about it and once people urged us for the differences and for an upgrade to not just be a thick cost effective solution. But to be a higher temp solution and everyone said they were willing to pay more.

So. After a bit of development and moving forward based on new cost structures we've found a way to develop the eDead v1SE² as a 60mil solution with a butyl base and slightly different adhesive.

Long story short the changes.
1. Rubberized Aphalt base becomes a Butyl base. The current base liquifies before the new one really starts to show signs of stress.
2. Current manufacturing of the rubberized asphalt base is 70mils but to keep price the same (within reason) the eDead v1SE² will go to 60mils.

All in all it becomes more like Dynamat Extreme in every way. It's less overall value oriented and production would increase about 3 fold again to keep price where it needs to be. BUT, in all in it's a better performing product.

You guys give us the heads up or heads down and we'll proceed as you see fit."


If you know all that already more power to you and sorry for wasteing your time.LOL, I did not understand much after reading this... Rubberized asphalt I have dealt with in road design consists of shredded waste tires to basically get rid of at least some of them... It did not exhibit any superior temperature characteristics over old plain asphalt... It added some noise damping but not all that much. Is this the same deal with this stuff? Is this ED's recycling effort?

[demonbane23]

LOL, I did not understand much after reading this... Rubberized asphalt I have dealt with in road design consists of shredded waste tires to basically get rid of at least some of them... It did not exhibit any superior temperature characteristics over old plain asphalt... It added some noise damping but not all that much. Is this the same deal with this stuff? Is this ED's recycling effort?

sorry if you didnt understand lmao, I was just posting exactly what Ben did over at ICIX but i guess its a bit confuseing. The first post makes a wee bit more sense the long explanation lost me also.

oh well

[peter_euro]

There are some companies out there that refuse to follow the lead of those whom flsuh moral ethics down that drain though.. Not all followers follow the leader and not all leaders have any followers...
ANT
A leader with no followers becomes an outcast in no time... :rolleyes: :D

[demonbane23]

and same as you I would assume either its asphalt or its not im not sure what rubberized asphalt is unless its like that $hit like you said when they chop up tires. I have seen running tracks made out of that stuff. Its a mix of rubber and asphalt but thats not what the back of my edead looks like.

[second skin rep]

A leader with no followers becomes an outcast in no time... :rolleyes: :D

or a man beyond his time...

[peter_euro]

and same as you I would assume either its asphalt or its not im not sure what rubberized asphalt is unless its like that $hit like you said when they chop up tires. I have seen running tracks made out of that stuff. Its a mix of rubber and asphalt but thats not what the back of my edead looks like.It is most likely pulverized tire rubber instead of just being shredded...Maybe too high of rubber content negatively affected their deadener's adhesiveness?

[mandos]

I hate to go down this road again, but I really think this is a problem. Maybe they are the same, but I find your statement very confusing. The fact is, and it could well be some deficiency on my part, but I find a lot of the information that comes from you guys confusing. I can't figure out if this is policy, culture or what.

Obviously they can't be identical. At the very least they use different pigments. If they are identical in every other aspect, then I am mistaken, but the very structure of your statement means that you are mistaken either way.

Wouldn't it be simpler to say: "Both products are identical except for pigment" ? Then of course it would be nice to add an offer of a pint of each to evaluate. As it is, no real information has been added to the conversation.

This is all pretty basic stuff. Is it butyl? Is it asphalt? Is it Ensolite? Is it Neoprene. Fundamental characteristics that would help us make informed decisions are too often obfuscated. Are we to infer that you manufacture your liquid products yourself from formulas developed in house? We know that isn't the case from the v3 sale announcement. Are you saying that both products come from the same manufacturer – identical composition except for pigment?


I'm sorry if Steven's post was unclear.

I agree it is much simpler to say: "Both products are identical except for pigment." because that's exactly what it is. Could be any color. Black came about because people thought blue was making a car "too different". Personally I prefer blue since on the outer skin of a door, it's much easier to see what you've deadened when it doesn't blend in with the shadows.

V3 sticks just fine to plastic for whomever asked. I've got it on the door panels in my tC and I remove them much more often than any sane person. The V3 sticks fine.

As far as Steven offering you products, he can't do that since he doesn't work here. Unless you'd like him to purchase some eDead and then send it to you out of his pocket, it isn't possible.

[demonbane23]

mandos I thought steven worked doing Quality Control for elemental, or is that someone else?

[mandos]

mandos I thought steven worked doing Quality Control for elemental, or is that someone else?

He was...but unfortunately...by the time his post was made...he was gone :(

Left yesterday morning, but it is good to see him posting...it's a good thing he didn't leave today...don't think he could have handled the snow/ice on the roads :)

[demonbane23]

He was...but unfortunately...by the time his post was made...he was gone :(

Left yesterday morning, but it is good to see him posting...it's a good thing he didn't leave today...don't think he could have handled the snow/ice on the roads :)

Ahh you guys got a storm. You mean he actually moved to the Iowa area for a while then decided to move back home?

Not sure what you mean by he left, I assume from both.

To bad hes a smart guy :bun:

[mandos]

Ahh you guys got a storm. You mean he actually moved to the Iowa area for a while then decided to move back home?

Not sure what you mean by he left, I assume from both.

To bad hes a smart guy :bun:

Sorry about that. Was a temporary thing. He was up here for only 6 weeks. Definitely a good guy...but reminded me a little too much of Billy Bob Thornton when he wore a baseball cap.

[Regal1975]

That coming from big bird himself... ;)

Chris it never ceases to amaze me how elegantly you pose your thoughts online and how ungainly you are in real life :D

All in good fun. And thanks for setting it straight before i did...


And my employment was a planned temp-job. I have in no way severed any ties with ED though.

Oh and i can still sell EDead..... just wouldnt be much benefit to anyone at those prices....

[Regal1975]

Was? It is still is, hehe... And ED seems to be leading the way... That would be the day when you see a FAILED EFFORT sale from ED? "Due to substandard characteristics, we are offering you this for next to nothing. Install at your own risk as we cannot guarantee it will adhere. It is far from the best but it is dirt cheap". Now, I could live with a sales pitch like that.

BTW, I appreciate you taking time to test this stuff. thmbup



hmmm.. you must have missed Edead v2....

[peter_euro]

hmmm.. you must have missed Edead v2....I pride myself on being ignorant... ;)

[Regal1975]

I pride myself on being ignorant... ;)

in this case its a good thing...noone should have to remember that...

[peter_euro]

in this case its a good thing...noone should have to remember that...since you are no longer associated with ED, could you at least layout the chronology of ED deadeners and liquid stuff?

[WeRd2UrMuDdEr]

since you are no longer associated with ED, could you at least layout the chronology of ED deadeners and liquid stuff?
Poop that fell off.

Version 2 of poop that fell off

Version 3 of poop that fell off with some neat stuff in it, to make it sound good

Version 4 of poop watered down that is sprayable/paintable. (thank you pepto bismol)

[pete36]

since you are no longer associated with ED, could you at least layout the chronology of ED deadeners and liquid stuff?


im not stephen but i think i can answer

edead
edead v2 (which was garbage)
edead v1se
edead v3
edead v4(teklike) aka ensolite foam
edead v1se2 (the butyl stuff)

[peter_euro]

Poop that fell off.

Version 2 of poop that fell off

Version 3 of poop that fell off with some neat stuff in it, to make it sound good

Version 4 of poop watered down that is sprayable/paintable. (thank you pepto bismol)I did not realize there were so many... :confused:

[peter_euro]

im not stephen but i think i can answer

edead
edead v2 (which was garbage)
edead v1se
edead v3
edead v4(teklike) aka ensolite foam
edead v1se2 (the butyl stuff)wow, these designations can be confusing... Stuff on Ebay say it could be either V1 or V1SE if I remember correctly...

[Regal1975]

I am still associated with ED, just not receiving a bi-weekly paycheck from them... :)

And pete nailed it, Thanks!


yeah i still have a roll of v2 i keep around.. spray adhesive is a must on it... though my v1 is still solidly on my unprepped roof after over 2 (is it 3 now??) 100+deg GA summers...

[Doodaddy]

I haven't really heard much good on the eDead. You get a discount on the Spectrum anyway.....

Grow some balls and sign the neg rep next time. :rolleyes:

[Doodaddy]

Grow some balls and sign the neg rep next time. :rolleyes:
Better yet, Someguy should. ;)