Re: Max. size of USB flash-drive for car decks?

[Tom]

More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As long as
you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work. This
is Kenwood's spec. from http://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:

Maximum number of folder layers: 8
Maximum number of folders (per device): 500
Maximum number of files (per folder): 4096
Maximum number of files (per device): 15000

15,000 songs would fill 60-80gb in typical use! I'm sure flash will reach
that capacity soon enough.

I now have a 16gb 2.0 flash drive over 2/3rds full and it reads with no
errors (except DRM files synced with Windows Media Player 11 get ignored).
The flash drive takes about 15 secs to load on power-up. As long as you
don't unplug it, the last song position is remembered after you turn off
the deck. Very convenient to not walk through folders again.

To be conservative, I'd group music into as few folders as possible. You
can sort tracks in any order by naming them: 01 Song5, 02 Song3, 03 Song8,
etc.. Folders help with category sorting and navigation speed if the deck
lacks ID tag genre sorting.

When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the first file
in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's main
weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For me
there's no turning back to discs now.

Tom

[flak_monkey]

Tom;679585 Wrote:
> More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As long
> as
> you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work.
> This
> is Kenwood's spec. from http://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:
>
> Maximum number of folder layers: 8
> Maximum number of folders (per device): 500
> Maximum number of files (per folder): 4096
> Maximum number of files (per device): 15000
>
> 15,000 songs would fill 60-80gb in typical use! I'm sure flash will
> reach
> that capacity soon enough.
>
> I now have a 16gb 2.0 flash drive over 2/3rds full and it reads with no
> errors (except DRM files synced with Windows Media Player 11 get
> ignored).
> The flash drive takes about 15 secs to load on power-up. As long as you
> don't unplug it, the last song position is remembered after you turn
> off
> the deck. Very convenient to not walk through folders again.
>
> To be conservative, I'd group music into as few folders as possible.
> You
> can sort tracks in any order by naming them: 01 Song5, 02 Song3, 03
> Song8,
> etc.. Folders help with category sorting and navigation speed if the
> deck
> lacks ID tag genre sorting.
>
> When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the first
> file
> in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's
> main
> weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For me
> there's no turning back to discs now.
>
> Tom
this is great to know. Were you to use a really fast flash drive, i bet
that the media would access even faster.


--
flak_monkey

[Shug]

On 28 May, 18:07, Tom <t...@school.edu> wrote:
> More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As long as
> you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work. This
> is Kenwood's spec. fromhttp://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:
>
> Maximum number of folder layers: 8
> Maximum number of folders (per device): 500
> Maximum number of files (per folder): 4096
> Maximum number of files (per device): 15000
>
> 15,000 songs would fill 60-80gb in typical use! I'm sure flash will reach
> that capacity soon enough.
>
> I now have a 16gb 2.0 flash drive over 2/3rds full and it reads with no
> errors (except DRM files synced with Windows Media Player 11 get ignored).
> The flash drive takes about 15 secs to load on power-up. As long as you
> don't unplug it, the last song position is remembered after you turn off
> the deck. Very convenient to not walk through folders again.
>
> To be conservative, I'd group music into as few folders as possible. You
> can sort tracks in any order by naming them: 01 Song5, 02 Song3, 03 Song8,
> etc.. Folders help with category sorting and navigation speed if the deck
> lacks ID tag genre sorting.
>
> When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the first file
> in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's main
> weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For me
> there's no turning back to discs now.
>
> Tom

Hi Tom,

I'm new to this group, and found your research very interesting.

I'm currently looking for a head unit that has both inbuilt DAB and a
USB port, and I didn't even think that USB Drive size would be an
issue.

I've got an old 40G 2.5" drive in a USB enclosure that I was thinking
of putting in the glove compartment, then taking the lead out the back
of the GC and then round into the back of the head unit.

Note, I'm NOT talking about what I'd call a USB thumb drive - this is
an old laptop drive.

>From your research, do you foresee any problems with this setup?

Cheers

shug

[flak_monkey]

Shug;679609 Wrote:
> On 28 May, 18:07, Tom <t...@school.edu> wrote:
> > More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As
> long as
> > you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work.
> This
> > is Kenwood's spec. fromhttp://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:
> >
> > Maximum number of folder layers: 8
> > Maximum number of folders (per device): 500
> > Maximum number of files (per folder): 4096
> > Maximum number of files (per device): 15000
> >
> > 15,000 songs would fill 60-80gb in typical use! I'm sure flash will
> reach
> > that capacity soon enough.
> >
> > I now have a 16gb 2.0 flash drive over 2/3rds full and it reads with
> no
> > errors (except DRM files synced with Windows Media Player 11 get
> ignored).
> > The flash drive takes about 15 secs to load on power-up. As long as
> you
> > don't unplug it, the last song position is remembered after you turn
> off
> > the deck. Very convenient to not walk through folders again.
> >
> > To be conservative, I'd group music into as few folders as possible.
> You
> > can sort tracks in any order by naming them: 01 Song5, 02 Song3, 03
> Song8,
> > etc.. Folders help with category sorting and navigation speed if the
> deck
> > lacks ID tag genre sorting.
> >
> > When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the
> first file
> > in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's
> main
> > weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For
> me
> > there's no turning back to discs now.
> >
> > Tom
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I'm new to this group, and found your research very interesting.
>
> I'm currently looking for a head unit that has both inbuilt DAB and a
> USB port, and I didn't even think that USB Drive size would be an
> issue.
>
> I've got an old 40G 2.5" drive in a USB enclosure that I was thinking
> of putting in the glove compartment, then taking the lead out the back
> of the GC and then round into the back of the head unit.
>
> Note, I'm NOT talking about what I'd call a USB thumb drive - this is
> an old laptop drive.
>
> >From your research, do you foresee any problems with this setup?
>
> Cheers
>
> shug

That would be best suited for decks like the JVC KD AVX33 that have
rear usb. Make sure your dash isn't in the sunlight, that heat will
cook a hard drive. Or at least shorten it's life. This is what I'll be
doing, like you, with the portable drive. I am going to cushion it and
put it under the seat, run the cable under the carpet, and see how long
it lasts. That is, when I get the aforementioned JVC.


--
flak_monkey

[Shug]

On 28 May, 22:42, flak_monkey <flak_monkey.2rb...@no-
mx.forum.carstereos.org> wrote:
> Shug;679609 Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 28 May, 18:07, Tom <t...@school.edu> wrote:
> > > More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As
> > long as
> > > you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work.
> > This
> > > is Kenwood's spec. fromhttp://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:
>
> > > Maximum number of folder layers: 8
> > > Maximum number of folders (per device): 500
> > > Maximum number of files (per folder): 4096
> > > Maximum number of files (per device): 15000
>
> > > 15,000 songs would fill 60-80gb in typical use! I'm sure flash will
> > reach
> > > that capacity soon enough.
>
> > > I now have a 16gb 2.0 flash drive over 2/3rds full and it reads with
> > no
> > > errors (except DRM files synced with Windows Media Player 11 get
> > ignored).
> > > The flash drive takes about 15 secs to load on power-up. As long as
> > you
> > > don't unplug it, the last song position is remembered after you turn
> > off
> > > the deck. Very convenient to not walk through folders again.
>
> > > To be conservative, I'd group music into as few folders as possible.
> > You
> > > can sort tracks in any order by naming them: 01 Song5, 02 Song3, 03
> > Song8,
> > > etc.. Folders help with category sorting and navigation speed if the
> > deck
> > > lacks ID tag genre sorting.
>
> > > When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the
> > first file
> > > in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's
> > main
> > > weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For
> > me
> > > there's no turning back to discs now.
>
> > > Tom
>
> > Hi Tom,
>
> > I'm new to this group, and found your research very interesting.
>
> > I'm currently looking for a head unit that has both inbuilt DAB and a
> > USB port, and I didn't even think that USB Drive size would be an
> > issue.
>
> > I've got an old 40G 2.5" drive in a USB enclosure that I was thinking
> > of putting in the glove compartment, then taking the lead out the back
> > of the GC and then round into the back of the head unit.
>
> > Note, I'm NOT talking about what I'd call a USB thumb drive - this is
> > an old laptop drive.
>
> > >From your research, do you foresee any problems with this setup?
>
> > Cheers
>
> > shug
>
> That would be best suited for decks like the JVC KD AVX33 that have
> rear usb. Make sure your dash isn't in the sunlight, that heat will
> cook a hard drive. Or at least shorten it's life. This is what I'll be
> doing, like you, with the portable drive. I am going to cushion it and
> put it under the seat, run the cable under the carpet, and see how long
> it lasts. That is, when I get the aforementioned JVC.
>
> --
> flak_monkey- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for your response flak_monkey.

That unit looks fantastic, but it's probably a bit out of my price
range - I can spend only about =A3250 on this unit.

Also, I don't need it to play DVDs etc, which that one does, and I'd
rather have the DAB functionality built in, rather than needing an
additional unit.

(Re the USB drive - I was planning to store that in my glove
compartment - I've already tested leaving it there for longish
periods, and the case never seems to get too hot.)

Are there any other sub-=A3250 head units with integrated DAB and a rear
USB port?

Cheers

Shug

[Tom]

Shug <enoesque73@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:1180386595.453776.168360@w5g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com:

> I'm new to this group, and found your research very interesting.
>
> I'm currently looking for a head unit that has both inbuilt DAB and a
> USB port, and I didn't even think that USB Drive size would be an
> issue.
>
> I've got an old 40G 2.5" drive in a USB enclosure that I was thinking
> of putting in the glove compartment, then taking the lead out the back
> of the GC and then round into the back of the head unit.
>
> Note, I'm NOT talking about what I'd call a USB thumb drive - this is
> an old laptop drive.
>
>From your research, do you foresee any problems with this setup?

As long as the folder and file structure obeys your Mfr's spec, it should
work. I'd definitely check the heat rating of any hard-drive. I've seen
some that can only handle 95 degrees F when powered on. You may feel cool
with A/C, but if that drive is tucked away or has roasted all day, watch
out.

I picked flash memory because of its toughness and claimed 10-20 year data
retention (Fowler-Nordheim!) Hard drives made specifically for cars should
be OK in theory (e.g. PhatNoise cartridges). I personally don't like the
idea of any moving parts in a tough environment. 16gb flash has been more
than enough to hold decades worth of favorite songs at an (averaged)
bitrate of about 160kbps.

Tom

[Tom]

flak_monkey <flak_monkey.2rb36p@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org> wrote in
news:flak_monkey.2rb36p@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org:

> this is great to know. Were you to use a really fast flash drive, i bet
> that the media would access even faster.

It's USB 2.0 and so is the deck. The only lag is when it initially loads
for about 15 seconds; same as on my PC. After that it responds quickly
enough. RW & FF on my deck is silent, and for some reason the remote only
lets you skip whole tracks. Small price to pay for this new convenience.

The toughest part is deciding how to group 3,000+ tracks logically. I
downloaded an app called "Directory Lister" that helps you make custom
printouts of file and folder names. Save as HTML for best (vertical) text
density, then paste into a word processor and use columns and a small font.
Folder names alone are a good reference if you forget what song you're
after.

Tom

[Tom]

flak_monkey <flak_monkey.2rbc82@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org> wrote in
news:flak_monkey.2rbc82@no-mx.forum.carstereos.org:

> That would be best suited for decks like the JVC KD AVX33 that have
> rear usb. Make sure your dash isn't in the sunlight, that heat will
> cook a hard drive. Or at least shorten it's life. This is what I'll be
> doing, like you, with the portable drive. I am going to cushion it and
> put it under the seat, run the cable under the carpet, and see how long
> it lasts. That is, when I get the aforementioned JVC.

I picked rear USB on purpose also. I like to cover up my stereo and a thumb
drive sticking out wouldn't work. Unplugging it each time is more of a
hassle than people might think, plus you lose the last-played position
(maybe not on all decks). A good hiding spot is under the dash near a fuse-
box that already has a removable panel in front of it. Avoid getting road
dust on the connection and you're good.

Tom

[Tom]

Shug <enoesque73@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:1180419429.412374.146790@k79g2000hse.googlegr oups.com:

> Are there any other sub-£250 head units with integrated DAB and a rear
> USB port?

A rear-cable model by Kenwood can be had online for under $150 USD, and
same goes for a 16gb flash stick. I'm not sure why some 16gb flash memory
is more costly. Speed hasn't been a problem but I can't personally vouch
for more than 2 weeks' reliability (not that I'm worried). They say always
back up your music collection on something else.

Tom

[Lee]

More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As long as you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work. This is Kenwood's spec. from http://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:

Nice find.

[jz1276]

I just picked up the Blaupunkt St Louis model with the rear USB port and front SD card reader and connected a 20GB USB drive to it and mounted it in the glove. Evereything works perfectly. My only complaint is a slight humming noise coming from the speakers when listening to songs on the USB drive. This noise gets drowned out if I turn the volume up slightly.

[CT]

On May 28, 12:07 pm, Tom <t...@school.edu> wrote:
> More research and actually trying it has answered my questions. As long as
> you obey the allowable folder/file structure, the device should work. This
> is Kenwood's spec. fromhttp://www.kenwood.com/audiofile:

snip
>
> When the last file in a folder is reached, playback moves to the first file
> in the next folder, based on nesting levels and folder names. USB's main
> weakness is getting gapless playback to work outside a computer. For me
> there's no turning back to discs now.
>
> Tom

Yeah, the reason why I went with a usb port in-dash stereo was to get
rid of the dependence on burn CDs. Mine plays mp3's from CDs as well,
but you will have to make a new cd everytime you want to add or
subtract songs. With the flash drive, I just hook it up to the
computer and add or subtract songs quite easily. And forward and
reverse traversing of songs is a lot quicker than a CD. My USB port
is in the front, which I don't mind. I plan on getting a 2GB flash
drive that is small so it won't seem noticeable.

Chris