JL or Cadence Amp

[The_spacemonkey]

They had terrible control over drivers (poor damping factor)

This made me laugh a little on the inside

[SpyVette]

Originally Posted by The_spacemonkey This made me laugh a little on the inside

Don't believe in damping factor?

I don't believe in it anymore, after finding out Alpine's idea of 'high damping' is 80.

[JLAudioCavalier]

you 2 have the same join date, how cute.
and spy, at a quick glance your little caption looks like it says "BIG BOOBS". Needless to say, it got my hopes up.

[The_spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by SpyVette Don't believe in damping factor? I don't believe in it anymore, after finding out Alpine's idea of 'high damping' is 80.

Sure damping factor means something, if we were anywhere near the audible range. Any passable quality (and even most poor quality amps) have damping factors that are far into the inaudible range.

I only worry about things that affect what I can hear. I don't care about things I cant hear. If I did, I would worry about everything from ambient temperature to barometric pressure to the change in linearity of a sub due to gravity from pointing upwards or sideways.

[peter_euro]

Originally Posted by The_spacemonkey heh..... Manville played the game well and went with the one post response. So unless you plan on giving yourself a hard time and keeping an internal debate, I dont think this one will make it to 12 pages. I think I was mistaking Manville for bassfreak

well no... it was for you to come back after 12 pages... if 12 pages do not happen, you do not come back... seems pretty easy to follow instead of blaming manville for your early return....

[peter_euro]

Originally Posted by msmith Are you referring to the regulation only or to the impedance optimization (which wouldn't be possible without regulation)? If it's the former, then I simply don't agree with your opinion. Reducing distortion in real-world applications is not a novelty, it's a real benefit (even for subwoofers). That's why we don't make a 2000/1 (which people ask for all the time). For the 1000/1, we recommend a minimum of 2 AWG for a main run split into a 4 AWG within 3 feet of the amp (read the manual). It's a powerful amp and requires attention to wiring like all powerful amps. It's not a toy. The 1000/1 is around 60% efficient, versus 75% for most other Class D's. Doing simple math at 12 volts, the 1000/1 draws 1666 Watts to make 1000 (1666/12V = 138A). A 75% efficient amp draws 1333 Watts to make 1000 (1333/12V = 111A), if it is really making 1000 watts at 12 Volts. The same math for a 500W amp is 69A for the 500/1 versus 56A for the other amp. It's a difference, but not a huge one. The thing you seem to advocate is that by allowing the rail voltages to sag, you draw less current... but you are also not making full power anymore (unless your charging system is incredible stable and doesn't sag, in which case the regulated amp also draws less current). Heat is almost never a problem for a 500/1 or a 1000/1. It takes hours of full-tilt boogie to get into thermal overload playing music (or an incredible hostile mounting environment). Should you overheat it, the RIPS system rolls rail voltage back until it reaches a safe temperature, without shutting the amp down. The only things that will shut down a Slash are Low Voltage, a dead short on the output or an internal failure. If Slash amps were serial alternator killers, as you imply, they would have failed in the market a long time ago. The fact that they are the best-selling car amplifiers of all time speaks to the fact that people have great success using them and great satisfaction owning them. You need to consider the duty cycle of music and the duration of high-current demanded by the power supply in any analysis of alternator reliability. This is no greater a problem with a Slash than with any other amp of equal power output in real-world use. BTW, from a historical perspective... the genesis of the RIPS technology was developed by Bruce Macmillan at PPI in the 1990's and used in the legendary 2350DM, considered by many to be one of the best sounding car amplifiers of all time. The present RIPS circuit is Bruce's further development of that technology. Bruce likes regulated power supplies and understands them better than most engineers, simply because he has designed lots of them and learned what to do and what not to do. He often says that the reason more regulated power supplies are not used in car audio is simple: they are significantly more expensive than unregulated supplies and not a lot of people understand them well enough to design them. Best regards, Manville Smith JL Audio, Inc.

Manville, burry those things Viking style...

[msmith]

Originally Posted by JLAudioCavalier Can we talk about the warranty? This is different from the normal JL discussion/complaints. It is usualy about too high of prices, or inefficiency of slash amps from what I see. But I want to ask why the warranty isn't more extensive? My current understanding is that, for one, you want to ensure the stability of your authorized B&M dealers. I realy respect and appreciate that. I am good friends with some B&M car audio store owners and employees, JL being one of their product lines, and keeping local guys in business is definately good, and it makes sense that you do not authorize internet sales. HOWEVER, even when you purchase at an authorized dealer, DIY guys are dead in the water. The way I was told and the way I read about your warranty is that it needs to be installed at the authorized dealer to even have the 1 year warranty. I personaly enjoy doing installs and whether or not I work for an authorized JL dealer, I want to install my own(or others) JL products without worrying about having zero support on them simply becuase(as i interperate the warranty), people who are not authorized dealers cant be trusted to install properly And one last thing about it, any reason the warranty isn't longer than a single year? Thanks for any info you can provide. -Dustin

The warranty on amplifiers is extended to TWO years if installed by a dealer or the DIY installation is "approved as acceptable" by the dealer. I don't see this as DIY unfriendly... at least we provide a method for the DIY to get full warranty, unlike "Installed by Dealer" plans which do not.

No authorized dealer that you bought an amp from will refuse to approve a decent, safe installation for their customers. The policy just protects them and us from imbeciles who do stupid things when they install amplifiers with lamp cord and cause a fire and encourages said imbeciles to go to their dealer so that hopefully a bad install can be corrected before it causes said fire.

That being said, we may change to a more conventional warranty policy at some point in the future... we have discussed it.

Best regards,

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

[JLAudioCavalier]

that is 100% the reply I wanted to hear. thanks Mr. Smith.
I definately know what you mean by the morons who do their super awesum kustom installz, i have fixed a few.

Now part 2 of my question, what was the main deciding factor in not authorizing any online sales(even if it would mean limiting the warranty further)?
Again, I realy like the idea of a vendor watching out for their authorized B&M dealers, especialy knowing some guys with a very good thriving company that carries your products. But I dunno, curiosity is getting the best of me. :-P

[msmith]

We may authorize online sales of mobile products at some point in the future, but for now, we are B&M only.

Reason? Mainly loyalty to our dealers and a desire for customers to have a good experience shopping for our products in an environment that provides demonstration, advice, installation service and after-sales support. We realize that many customers today expect to have an online purchasing option and we have discussed this.

[msmith]

Originally Posted by peter_euro Manville, burry those things

Hmmmm... let me think about that...

Okay, I thought about it... We're going to keep selling them just so you have something to rant about.

[peter_euro]

Originally Posted by msmith Hmmmm... let me think about that... Okay, I thought about it... We're going to keep selling them just so you have something to rant about.

no problem... I need to start to look for one of these for a full slash install...

[PuffDaddy_d]

Originally Posted by msmith We may authorize online sales of mobile products at some point in the future, but for now, we are B&M only. Reason? Mainly loyalty to our dealers and a desire for customers to have a good experience shopping for our products in an environment that provides demonstration, advice, installation service and after-sales support. We realize that many customers today expect to have an online purchasing option and we have discussed this.

You could allow customers to buy the products online directly from JL. That would satisfy their online needs and you don't have to worry about alienating your dealers as much.

[msmith]

I can now announce that, later this year, Crutchfield will offer JL Audio marine and car products for sale online and via their catalog.

[Jethro]

Originally Posted by msmith I can now announce that, later this year, Crutchfield will offer JL Audio marine and car products for sale online and via their catalog.

Some other online speaker company was lamenting this rumor... I think they are a little scareD. Nice to know that it is more than just a rumor.

[JasonPaul]

Originally Posted by msmith I can now announce that, later this year, Crutchfield will offer JL Audio marine and car products for sale online and via their catalog.

Good Luck...